Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums  

Go Back   Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums Parker Forums General Parker Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-09-2018, 10:46 AM   #11
Member
Dean Romig
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Dean Romig's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 20,196
Thanks: 16,140
Thanked 14,583 Times in 6,104 Posts

Default

Todd, I think with the Trojans they were all choked F/F & F/M and IC/M on the twelves without necessarily adhering to a pellet count.

Tom, I wrap a moderate amount of Frontier pad around a brass brush, attach it to a cleaning rod, chuck it up in a cordless drill, dip it in Hoppe's and go to work on the bores. Frontier Pads will NOT harm the bores at all.





.
__________________
"I'm a Setter man.
Not because I think they're better than the other breeds,
but because I'm a romantic - stuck on tradition - and to me,
a Setter just "belongs" in the grouse picture."

George King, "That's Ruff", 2010 - a timeless classic.
Dean Romig is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Dean Romig For Your Post:
Old 07-09-2018, 11:00 AM   #12
Member
MD*GSP
PGCA Member
 
Scot Cardillo's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 482
Thanks: 774
Thanked 435 Times in 160 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Romig View Post
Todd, I think with the Trojans they were all choked F/F & F/M and IC/M on the twelves without necessarily adhering to a pellet count.

.
Is that true for just the Trojans Dean? If not, at what grade could one expect to receive a gun along with a functional test, that's papered? Were guns provided with the actual target used to determine pellet count or was a simple notation made somewhere besides the record book (in some cases I suspect)?
Scot Cardillo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 11:27 AM   #13
Member
Tom Flanigan
PGCA Lifetime
Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 519
Thanks: 9
Thanked 533 Times in 220 Posts

Default

Good points Todd. I'll have to get a letter on the gun. But I can't imagine Parker leaving little choke in the right barrel for a gun that was ordered with 28" barrels and modified and full choke. Frankly, I don't think the dilemma will ever be resolved.
Tom Flanigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 11:40 AM   #14
Member
Dean Romig
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Dean Romig's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 20,196
Thanks: 16,140
Thanked 14,583 Times in 6,104 Posts

Default

Scott, Parkers were only provided with two hang tags - one of which listed the shot size, the target size/distance, and the shot count from each barrel.

Trojans may have had such a hang tag but, never having seen one, I don't know. I do know they had hang tags - the one I started hunting with at age 13or 14 had two tags but they were illegible, being oil soaked and grimy.





.
__________________
"I'm a Setter man.
Not because I think they're better than the other breeds,
but because I'm a romantic - stuck on tradition - and to me,
a Setter just "belongs" in the grouse picture."

George King, "That's Ruff", 2010 - a timeless classic.
Dean Romig is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dean Romig For Your Post:
Old 07-09-2018, 12:55 PM   #15
Member
Richard Flanders
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Richard Flanders's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,295
Thanks: 4,158
Thanked 3,270 Times in 994 Posts

Default

I have a now 87? yr old lady duck hunter friend who shot the choke clean out of an Ithaca Mod 37, but she was using steel shot. She had a screw in choke installed and kept on shooting.
Richard Flanders is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Richard Flanders For Your Post:
Old 07-09-2018, 03:36 PM   #16
Member
Double Lab
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Daryl Corona's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,581
Thanks: 7,253
Thanked 2,548 Times in 1,126 Posts

Default

Shooting even a gadzillion loads through a gun will not "wear out" the chokes. Is this gun still on face Tom? That would wear first.

To establish the "choke" for the gun you would have to take the choke diameter then subtract it from the bore diameter and then pattern it on paper. Remember that the loads that the gun was patterned with are vastly different from the loads commercially available today. Unless you reload with fiber, filler or overshot wads the plastic shotcups and modern powders that most of us use are going to give you a totally different result. And yes the Galazan type plug gauge only measures the very end of the muzzle and they can be way off.

Best advice is to take it out and shoot some targets with it Tom. The proof is in the pudding. If it breaks targets hard on the skeet field then you got choke. If not someone has reamed the chokes. We don't live that far from each other Tom, contact me and I'd be happy to measure the gun for you and just maybe we could shoot a few targets just for the fun of it.
__________________
Wag more- Bark less.
Daryl Corona is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Daryl Corona For Your Post:
Old 07-09-2018, 03:39 PM   #17
Member
10 bore
PGCA Member
 
scott kittredge's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,436
Thanks: 4,262
Thanked 1,420 Times in 507 Posts

Default

shoot it at paper, I think you will find if it was F and M it still will be if it in deed hasn't been touched. I shoot a lot of patterns and find with "opened choked " guns shoot tighter than they constriction say what they "should be". I have shot 12 ga guns with .013 of choke and get 60%, (mod) but should be closer to imp cyl, Try at test pattern at 40 yds and that will tell all.
scott
__________________
No man laid on his death bed and said,"I wished I would have worked more"
scott kittredge is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to scott kittredge For Your Post:
Old 07-09-2018, 04:50 PM   #18
Member
Southpaw
Forum Associate

Member Info
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 623
Thanks: 592
Thanked 259 Times in 184 Posts

Default

Question is when did shotgun manufacturers get to a standardized method of measurements of choke based on constriction and not by pellet count?

As example years ago went halibut fishing in Alaska. Wife, dad and son tag teamed and caught a barn door. After shooting it a couple of times with a 410 they wrangled it on board and measured it. They said it weighed 198 pounds give or take 2 pounds. Seems after about a 30 year study with thousands of fish measured and weighed they could estimate a fishes weight within 2% accuracy.

So in early 1900's when did they start just calling things choked a certain way instead of doing the pellet count after years of testing. Maybe the Trojan was the first gun in the Parker line to do this.

Tom I agree you may never know if gun has slightly changed a point or two on choke constrictions due to wear. Also as alluded to with less shot deformation occurring in a modern load the gun may shoot tighter. As long as it patterns around what your shooting and looking at I think it is what it is since I know you aren't going to change it.

BTW I have a Parker VH 16 that think is full and full originally. Right barrel I think is slightly more open after use and it is like an improved modified. Don't think it came that way from factory and fairly certain that gun was not reamed but I think years of shooting that right barrel first has maybe opened the gun a few points. BTW it is well worn but taken care of as well and most of the checkering is very smooth and I like it that way.

Last edited by Todd Poer; 07-09-2018 at 05:24 PM.
Todd Poer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 04:56 PM   #19
Member
J.B. Books
PGCA Member
 
Pete Lester's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,226
Thanks: 1,021
Thanked 2,978 Times in 902 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Flanigan View Post
Good points Todd. I'll have to get a letter on the gun. But I can't imagine Parker leaving little choke in the right barrel for a gun that was ordered with 28" barrels and modified and full choke. Frankly, I don't think the dilemma will ever be resolved.
FWIW I have a 12ga Trojan 28" from 1913. It has .729 bores in both barrels with .021 constriction in the right barrel and .036 in the left barrel. The letter I have says it patterned 225 pellets right barrel and 250 pellets in the left barrel. I need to dig out the results of shooting patterns with it which is on an old computer but I believe it shot full and extra full at 40 yards with 1 1/8 ounce number #6 lead. As others have mentioned to figure this out you need a letter that hopefully gives chokes or pattern information, measure your bores and chokes and pattern it into a 30" circle at 40 yards. Plastic wads made loading shells easier for ammo makers, they don't automatically mean tighter patterns vs. old ammunition, antique paper shells can pattern very tight. In the end the only thing that counts for choke is the pattern it throws on paper.
__________________
"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind" Aristotle
Pete Lester is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Pete Lester For Your Post:
Old 07-09-2018, 05:50 PM   #20
Member
Drew Hause
Forum Associate
 
Drew Hause's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,413
Thanks: 148
Thanked 2,030 Times in 720 Posts

Default

Tom: here is a "Wear-And-Tear" Trial, but only 2500 shells
https://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA109

30,000 rounds with improved full choke pattern
https://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA227

W.W. Greener in The Gun; a gun used by "Schultze" for many years in which the pattern % improved over time
https://books.google.com/books?id=3HMCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA353

Last edited by Drew Hause; 07-09-2018 at 07:53 PM.
Drew Hause is offline   Reply With Quote
Visit Drew Hause's homepage!
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:37 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2018, Parkerguns.org
Copyright 2004 Design par Megatekno
- 2008 style update 3.7 avec l'autorisation de son auteur par Stradfred.